Curse

Abedeus · Nov 18, 2009, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

And having a skill ingame that is able to circumvent 90% of GW's mechanisms isn't too bad

Whatwhatwhat?! ONE SKILL. Bypasses 90% of GW's skills. Makes the target basically a God of Farming that can be touched by a handful of skills. And you say it's not bad?

I just thank God that you are not on the Arena Net's balancing team. You would buff Ursan Blessing even more, because "it helps people reduce the time they need for weapons and armors".

Excuse me - what need? They don't NEED elite armors or pimped out weapons. They want them. Why do you feel the need to get the most expensive things just because they are expensive? Or why should they give them out for free?

Arduin · Nov 18, 2009, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Nothing to add.

Sadly.

AKB48 · Nov 18, 2009, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Whatwhatwhat?! ONE SKILL. Bypasses 90% of GW's skills. Makes the target basically a God of Farming that can be touched by a handful of skills. And you say it's not bad?

I just thank God that you are not on the Arena Net's balancing team. You would buff Ursan Blessing even more, because "it helps people reduce the time they need for weapons and armors".

Excuse me - what need? They don't NEED elite armors or pimped out weapons. They want them. Why do you feel the need to get the most expensive things just because they are expensive? Or why should they give them out for free?

First: quote my ENTIRE quote before you start act as the "wise man".(hmmm this quote can be used against AKB48, what? he got reasons? f-that, if I don't quote that part, no one will know, yay! Good strategy, not gonna lie)

But I think it's fair for casual players to get some of all the elite armor/weapons. If you think people don't need the 133t armor/weapon "just because" they are expensive, then how about we take all your high ends(if you got any, that is) and dress you up in the common armor/weapons, how would you feel? I'll assume you will be more than happy to do so from that you said above. I never said to give these 133t weapons out for free, perma is easy, sure, 123 and spam your attacking spells, but to learn each area effectively, and to be able to cover other areas, DO take some time despite the common notion that perma UW = zero learning curve(and here I'm wondering why so many pugs fail). So all I'm saying is that 1) if you wanna lower/kill the game inflation/adjust the prices of items, limit the total amount of gold pieces that can be obtain in the game, otherwise the inflation will be eternal. Why do you think the national treasuries keeps a cap on the total amount of cash flowing in their nations? There is a reason, unbeknown to you. 2) I'm not saying I'm 100% for perma, since I used to hate it until I made an assa because of it(haha...

) but I do think permaing is a good way for casual players to obtain some of the 133t items, why should these items always belong to the hard-core GW addicts? Plus, even if you were to nerf SF now, it is too little and it is too late. Nerf it back when SF was at its peak, if you didn't doing it then, Anet, why do it now? There is no point, you already missed the bulk of what you are targeting, SF usage already been reduced due to less people(as far as I know) playing it, and now Anet introduced the skeletons in UW, which makes its usage even less.

And hey, if I were on the Anet's balancing team(pray that you quote me correctly this time, Abedeus

) I probably would buff Ursan a day or two just before GW2 launches, and then shut it down after-wards, just for fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Nothing to add.

Sadly.

Since when did you ever had anything to add except your endless bickering about this and that?

Abedeus · Nov 18, 2009, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

First: quote my ENTIRE quote before you start act as the "wise man".(hmmm this quote can be used against AKB48, what? he got reasons? f-that, if I don't quote that part, no one will know, yay! Good strategy, not gonna lie)

Why should I? You lost all credibility the second you said those words.

Quote:

But I think it's fair for casual players to get some of all the elite armor/weapons.

Read these three words few times before they sink in. CASUAL PLAYERS don't care about ELITE weapons or armors. And if they care, they should take SOME effort. Not roll their faces over keyboards for an hour and get everything they want.

Quote:

If you think people don't need the 133t armor/weapon "just because" they are expensive, then how about we take all your high ends(if you got any, that is) and dress you up in the common armor/weapons, how would you feel?

I would be DEVASTATED! Too bad I never ran a single SC, I was in two or three Ursanways before I got bored out of my mind. Rest of the time I either solo farmed or in Physical-Ways (a lot of Warriors, Dervishes, an Imbagon, an Order Necro and a Monk - I was the Monk) in DoA, UW and FoW. People don't NEED elite armors. They WANT them. I don't need $100000. I want $100000. GIVE ME GIVE ME GIVE ME. If you don't agree, give away all your money and live on $100 a month.

Quote:

I'll assume you will be more than happy to do so from that you said above. I never said to give these 133t weapons out for free, perma is easy, sure, 123 and spam your attacking spells, but to learn each area effectively, and to be able to cover other areas, DO take some time despite the common notion that perma UW = zero learning curve(and here I'm wondering why so many pugs fail).

Yeeaaaahhhhhhhh no.

Quote:

So all I'm saying is that 1) if you wanna lower/kill the game inflation/adjust the prices of items, limit the total amount of gold pieces that can be obtain in the game, otherwise the inflation will be eternal. Why do you think the national treasuries keeps a cap on the total amount of cash flowing in their nations? There is a reason, unbeknown to you.

NO WAY! There is this thing called "gold sinks" in the game. Consumables, armors, crafted weapons, skills, that sort of things. You are saying "The fire will burn anyway, so let's open the windows, it will burn faster".

Quote:

2) I'm not saying I'm 100% for perma, since I used to hate it until I made an assa because of it(haha...

) but I do think permaing is a good way for casual players to obtain some of the 133t items, why should these items always belong to the hard-core GW addicts?

So you admit you are a hypocrite - you hated the skill till you started using it. yay. I'm not a hardcore GW addict. I'm more of a PvP-enthusiast. And even I can get elite armors or weapons. I just don't NEED them. If they want to buy something, they work for the money with trading.

Also, since when do casuals care so much about hardcore items?

Quote:

Plus, even if you were to nerf SF now, it is too little and it is too late. Nerf it back when SF was at its peak, if you didn't doing it then, Anet, why do it now? There is no point, you already missed the bulk of what you are targeting, SF usage already been reduced due to less people(as far as I know) playing it, and now Anet introduced the skeletons in UW, which makes its usage even less.

So you are simply afraid of the nerfing. The same people said "Ursan Blessing has been fine for a year, they won't ever nerf it, don't like it, don't use it". And they finally shut up.

Quote:

And hey, if I were on the Anet's balancing team(pray that you quote me correctly this time, Abedeus

) I probably would buff Ursan a day or two just before GW2 launches, and then shut it down after-wards, just for fun.

This is why I hope you will never work in any MMO company. You are the scourge of the MMOs, catering to the GIMME GIMME GIMME crowd. You like the insta-lottery i-win buttons? How about some nice single-player games? Just hit the ~ button and enter godmode for the win.

snowman relic · Nov 18, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Why should I? You lost all credibility the second you said those words.

Read these three words few times before they sink in. CASUAL PLAYERS don't care about ELITE weapons or armors. And if they care, they should take SOME effort. Not roll their faces over keyboards for an hour and get everything they want.

I would be DEVASTATED! Too bad I never ran a single SC, I was in two or three Ursanways before I got bored out of my mind. Rest of the time I either solo farmed or in Physical-Ways (a lot of Warriors, Dervishes, an Imbagon, an Order Necro and a Monk - I was the Monk) in DoA, UW and FoW. People don't NEED elite armors. They WANT them. I don't need $100000. I want $100000. GIVE ME GIVE ME GIVE ME. If you don't agree, give away all your money and live on $100 a month.

Yeeaaaahhhhhhhh no.

NO WAY! There is this thing called "gold sinks" in the game. Consumables, armors, crafted weapons, skills, that sort of things. You are saying "The fire will burn anyway, so let's open the windows, it will burn faster".

So you admit you are a hypocrite - you hated the skill till you started using it. yay. I'm not a hardcore GW addict. I'm more of a PvP-enthusiast. And even I can get elite armors or weapons. I just don't NEED them. If they want to buy something, they work for the money with trading.

Also, since when do casuals care so much about hardcore items?

So you are simply afraid of the nerfing. The same people said "Ursan Blessing has been fine for a year, they won't ever nerf it, don't like it, don't use it". And they finally shut up.

This is why I hope you will never work in any MMO company. You are the scourge of the MMOs, catering to the GIMME GIMME GIMME crowd. You like the insta-lottery i-win buttons? How about some nice single-player games? Just hit the ~ button and enter godmode for the win.

ok at first i was just going to take out the parts i dont like but this whole thing is bullcrap i was once a casual player and guess what? i wanted 15k armor and high end weps no i didnt stand around begging for mony i did what i knew how to do to earn mony i killed creatures but u kno what? thats probl 15k a day ull make max (not including over acheivers and people with waayyy to much free time) and you know shadow form i was completly for it BEFORE I HAD A SIN and i was on its side because hey as they overfarm they keep prices down for us ectos, eternal swords, obsidian blades, now im getting the feeling your already bought these items uber cheap and now you got them you want prices to go up up UP so you can make a profit and you know what? that is a load of bull s*** get over yourself this is not your own personal game if you want it your way go to burger king, Go buy a DS and go play pokemon you little kid were if you feel wronged you can always turn it off lika big boy/girl and maby one day when you mature enough to relize sh*t happens you got to deal with the cards your delt then you can play with the big kids but untill then stop complaining about others good luck and fortune congradulate them if you see them dont shoot them down after their work and for those who say perma is a stupid three button spamming id like to see how you react trying to run up mnts with a perma solo or just how your trying to kill some aaxte and your down to 15 energy using no BU and shadow form dieing becuase im telling you now the people that can bide their time and live THEY are the ones truly getting rich off shadow form

Arduin · Nov 18, 2009, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

Since when did you ever had anything to add except your endless bickering about this and that?

Yeah, let's not go there.

max2562 · Nov 19, 2009, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Its simple... one single player should not be able to clear an area whether it be a monk or a sin. It simply should not be. I guess I'm alone in this thinking... but everything else gets nerfed so why leave alone the most uber build ever? It makes no sense and is incredibly inconsistent with past nerf attempts.
I know bot farmers and people who buy gold with real money are a huge problem as well but those people are getting banned on a daily basis. Why? Because it unbalances the game and gives them an extremely unfair advantage.
We don't like when a new player buys tons of in-game gold, buys runs throughout the game, buys a run to the forge and then crafts obby armor. Do we? Of course not. Then why should we tolerate this similar type of behavior? We aren't angry at them for violating the EULA are we? I couldn't are less about the EULA. I simply don't like it that they can have with almost no effort what took me so much blood sweat and tears to acquire. Makes all my efforts meaningless...
All of this, of course, is strictly my opinion and probably smells like every other I'm sure...

reaper with no name · Nov 19, 2009, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

If it exists, it's legit

Under this line of logic, there should never be any skill changes, ever. Seeing as how there are skill changes every so often, clearly, anet does not share this philosophy.

Also, it is a terrible idea. About 90 years ago in the US, it was illegal for women to vote. Did that make it right? Certainly not. Just because something is allowed does not make it right. Why? Because humans don't always think of everything when they plan stuff out.

Quote:

And having a skill ingame that is able to circumvent 90% of GW's mechanisms isn't too bad

...

Ok, then. Go to Sardelac and suggest that monsters' ability to attack and cast targeted spells be removed, since that's what SF does. After all, it's not too bad for those things to not exist, right?

Quote:

as for GW, I think it's meant to be played in the combat zone, not in the trading post.

The difference between agriculture and combat is that combat carries risk.

When you use SF, the game is not a combat zone. It is a field of wheat, waiting to be harvested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the western warrior

ok at first i was just going to take out the parts i dont like but this whole thing is bullcrap i was once a casual player and guess what? i wanted 15k armor and high end weps no i didnt stand around begging for mony i did what i knew how to do to earn mony i killed creatures but u kno what? thats probl 15k a day ull make max (not including over acheivers and people with waayyy to much free time) and you know shadow form i was completly for it BEFORE I HAD A SIN and i was on its side because hey as they overfarm they keep prices down for us ectos, eternal swords, obsidian blades, now im getting the feeling your already bought these items uber cheap and now you got them you want prices to go up up UP so you can make a profit and you know what? that is a load of bull s*** get over yourself this is not your own personal game if you want it your way go to burger king, Go buy a DS and go play pokemon you little kid were if you feel wronged you can always turn it off lika big boy/girl and maby one day when you mature enough to relize sh*t happens you got to deal with the cards your delt then you can play with the big kids but untill then stop complaining about others good luck and fortune congradulate them if you see them dont shoot them down after their work and for those who say perma is a stupid three button spamming id like to see how you react trying to run up mnts with a perma solo or just how your trying to kill some aaxte and your down to 15 energy using no BU and shadow form dieing becuase im telling you now the people that can bide their time and live THEY are the ones truly getting rich off shadow form

First off, please use proper punctuation and capitalization. It'll make people take you more seriously. I don't mean any offense, but I suspect you may be a troll, and am only humoring you with a response because I find this amusing and happen to have nothing better to do at the moment.

Secondly, did it ever occur to you that the inflation of the economy can actually raise the price of high-end items, because so much extra money is being generated?

The overall amount of wealth in the economy never changes. What changes is the amount of "money" in it. The more money, the less each individual denomination is worth. However, by getting a larger proportion of the total money in the game, one can become wealthier.

Now, granted, the extreme farming also brings more weapons and mods into the economy, which drives down the prices of those things. But for other things (such as high-end items), the prices actually increase, because their relative wealth has not changed. What this means is that while the farmers may get rich, those who do not farm become relatively poorer. SF widens the gap between rich and poor to more extreme levels.

Third, you are missing the entire point. Broken skill is broken. Broken skill removes the purpose of every other profession. Broken skill needs to be fixed if there is to be any semblance of balance in the game. The economy is only a side issue. Godmode is bad.

qvtkc · Nov 19, 2009, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Before Perma SF ever existed people already had years to "learn", and yet it is still like this. Maybe Anet just don't understand their target audience very well?

Most new players I talk to say GW is the hardest RPG ever just because their "firebolts" (flare) can't one hit KO and "rape monsters"....and apparently these people are the majority. I even over heard a random guy in post-searing ascalon saying he's "mislead" in that this game should be labeled a strategy game and not a RPG :P

No, people never had the opportunity to learn. Because as long as they can get away with being crappy, they will in most cases just remain crappy. When was the last time you saw someone playing badly and yet reaching the last levels/stages of Contra, Ninja Gaiden, Tetris, Battletoads etc.? Those are games you have to learn to play well before they let you proceed. I'm not saying GW should be unbeatable, I'm saying that as long as you even think about one-shotting monsters with Flare, you should get squashed when you set foot outside Ascalon City.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

As for me, the only thing I care about is actually playing an ONLINE game without being forced to go with AI, repeatedly solo farm or trying to find the 1% of good guilds. If it mean giving the 99% idiots crutches then so be it. I have more fun playing with with SF nubs than having a balanced group screaming at me to "heal better" after a "pro" mesmer ran ahead to hex monsters. To be honest, some areas deserve to be "abused" with SF just because the rewards are absolute crap for the effort involved. *cough* dungeons *cough*.

Do you play for rewards or do you play for the gameplay?

Tenebrae · Nov 19, 2009, 11:41 AM // 11:41

This is going from a non sense to another , now we moved from "if you dont like it ,dont use it" and "why bother ? how SF does affect YOUR game play ?" to :
- "it's fair for casual players to get some of all the elite armor/weapons" and
- "if you remove SF some areas will be so hard that no one will play them"
Seriously this attempt to "defend" a nonsense almost god mode skill with some strange arguments that have nonsense too is getting really weird. What will be next ? "if you nerf SF all UW monsters will cry" and "if you remove SF all D forms should be nerfed too" ?
I know there will be QQs and pain after that nerf/rework ( if it happens ) but for god sake , dont try to make it look unfair with non sense arguments .... its just .... weird because there are no reasonable arguments to defend SF. Nerf didnt happen because Anet is afraid of making it , thats it.

Abedeus · Nov 19, 2009, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by the western warrior

ok at first i was just going to take out the parts i dont like but this whole thing is bullcrap i was once a casual player and guess what? i wanted 15k armor and high end weps no i didnt stand around begging for mony i did what i knew how to do to earn mony i killed creatures but u kno what? thats probl 15k a day ull make max (not including over acheivers and people with waayyy to much free time) and you know shadow form i was completly for it BEFORE I HAD A SIN and i was on its side because hey as they overfarm they keep prices down for us ectos, eternal swords, obsidian blades, now im getting the feeling your already bought these items uber cheap and now you got them you want prices to go up up UP so you can make a profit and you know what? that is a load of bull s*** get over yourself this is not your own personal game if you want it your way go to burger king, Go buy a DS and go play pokemon you little kid were if you feel wronged you can always turn it off lika big boy/girl and maby one day when you mature enough to relize sh*t happens you got to deal with the cards your delt then you can play with the big kids but untill then stop complaining about others good luck and fortune congradulate them if you see them dont shoot them down after their work and for those who say perma is a stupid three button spamming id like to see how you react trying to run up mnts with a perma solo or just how your trying to kill some aaxte and your down to 15 energy using no BU and shadow form dieing becuase im telling you now the people that can bide their time and live THEY are the ones truly getting rich off shadow form

Cry, cry, some more cry, Pokemons, some more cries.

You said you are a casual player. This means 15k a day is a lot. I had a lot less.

You need to learn to either spend more time in-game (because you want something) or save some money. Or, I don't know... stop calling yourself casual, if you care about money so much?

That's why casual is called casual - casuals sit down, play 2 hours and have fun. You obviously want items. Casuals don't care so much about farming, grinding and so on.

Also, you are calling me a kid... Wow, really mature. Especially when you prove it with your attitude:

"I like that the inflation will make the prices go DOWN DOWN DOWN, because then everyone will be as poor as I am."

Guess what - until I started farming solo or going out with H/H to vanquish/do missions, I had about 60k on my account and I didn't even know about the existance of 15k armors. I was totally casual, I liked the way armors did.

I responded to the more polite things, because I am not going to read a troll-fest wall of cries from someone afraid that he might lose his cheap and easy source of income.

Aljasha · Nov 19, 2009, 02:44 PM // 14:44

personally i have no problem with farmers since they are the main cause of price reduction. however, i'd like sf to get rid of its god-mode like behaviour and make it usable for a variety of sin-builds regardless of the game mode.

UnChosen · Nov 19, 2009, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

FoW, The Deep, dungeon runs, mission runs. Also, it's still too powerful and should be nerfed for balance reasons. But that it's used for runs is the most damaging to the game.

Pfft....some of those areas deserve to be ran. 2+ hours in a dungeon with a normal pug for 2 onyx, really? 4+ hours in The Deep with a balanced pug to have a chance of getting a depreciated green, what? Spending hours in FoW with a balanced pug just to get enough shards that are equal or less than what people get from doing Z quest and solo farm in the same amount of time? There are more things to balance than just one skill.

Reverend Dr · Nov 19, 2009, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Pfft....some of those areas deserve to be ran. 2+ hours in a dungeon with a normal pug for 2 onyx, really? 4+ hours in The Deep with a balanced pug to have a chance of getting a depreciated green, what?

They would be worth more, but after several years of overpowered speed clearing farming builds, its only natural that such things would depreciate in value.

snowman relic · Nov 19, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Cry, cry, some more cry, Pokemons, some more cries.

You said you are a casual player. This means 15k a day is a lot. I had a lot less.

You need to learn to either spend more time in-game (because you want something) or save some money. Or, I don't know... stop calling yourself casual, if you care about money so much?

That's why casual is called casual - casuals sit down, play 2 hours and have fun. You obviously want items. Casuals don't care so much about farming, grinding and so on.

Also, you are calling me a kid... Wow, really mature. Especially when you prove it with your attitude:

"I like that the inflation will make the prices go DOWN DOWN DOWN, because then everyone will be as poor as I am."

Guess what - until I started farming solo or going out with H/H to vanquish/do missions, I had about 60k on my account and I didn't even know about the existance of 15k armors. I was totally casual, I liked the way armors did.

I responded to the more polite things, because I am not going to read a troll-fest wall of cries from someone afraid that he might lose his cheap and easy source of income.

wow thats nice before u starting vanquishing u had about 60k total? thats amazing try never more then 20k in about 3 years and then i started earning mony and no im not poor anymore actually im just not as rich as you kno the people who have couple thousand ectos and id love for this game to be a bit more new person friendly which im assuming you are not

Golgotha · Nov 19, 2009, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by the western warrior

wow thats nice before u starting vanquishing u had about 60k total? thats amazing try never more then 20k in about 3 years and then i started earning mony and no im not poor anymore actually im just not as rich as you kno the people who have couple thousand ectos and id love for this game to be a bit more new person friendly which im assuming you are not

Realize that most any GW player posting on a GW forum will not be newbie friendly. The only reason to post about GW anymore is to complain about it or certain functions and they're usually elitist players -- not the type you're looking for. There are a lot of nice players within the game that never even think to go outside of GW to talk about it as they're spending their time enjoying the game.

Think of GW forums as protest rallies and you're better off.

ddraeg cymru · Nov 19, 2009, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Yes it would.
Keep it, Kick it.
I'm not fussed, I play for fun.

-Ddraeg

AKB48 · Nov 20, 2009, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Why should I? You lost all credibility the second you said those words.

Well then, I got nothing to say to you, my friend. If you can only resort to tricks and devices to win an argument, well, good luck and good bye.

AtomicMew · Nov 20, 2009, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Abedeus, just because something in game is called "elite" does not necessarily means it correlates to the real life definition of elite. (Most "elite" armor is only 15k FYI.)

Think of it this way: when you use Burst of aggresion, it's not like your character is actually getting really mad which makes him attack faster. It's just a descriptive device to justify 33% IAS. Another example: should casual players not be allowed to use "elite" skills??

AK is entirely right when he says you are attempting to use "tricks and devices" to win arguments. Of course, you probably don't realize it, and you'll probably deny it with some half baked rationalization. But do carry on, since your posts are really quite lulsy ^^

Bryant Again · Nov 20, 2009, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

But the thing is, even without shadow form, there will still be ways to farm UW, and then you run into the same thing, people want only certain classes and builds. So either way, you are gonna run into the same problem, only certain classes are allowed to play UW.

And a note on Perma sins being not fun, actually it's not too bad, depends on the person, since running mtn/pools never gets old for me.

Fun is definitely a subjective case, and something being "fun/not fun" shouldn't be taken into consideration.

Of course, that's not the main problem with SF. It's more that it's a completely wonkers skill, and the way it operates in PvE - the way the monsters react to it and etc. mainly - even moreso.

But this is where I agree with the first part: SF isn't going to fix the game. It may be the most OP build but that's it, it's just the most OP thing in PvE right now. It'll be nice to get it in less of a crazy state, but it's just one out of nearly a thousand game-bending methods. So nerfing it won't really help anything to do with the game, but it's a start. I just don't see ANet following up on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

And having a skill ingame that is able to circumvent 90% of GW's mechanisms isn't too bad, after all, I don't think people should be spending hours on end trying to get enough money to buy some weapon or armor, or w/e it is they want. If you think the whole point of the game is about trading or whatnot, go play eve online, as for GW, I think it's meant to be played in the combat zone, not in the trading post.

The only things you actually "need" is mostly bought through traders, and these things aren't terribly unaffordable. The only things that aren't available there, that I believe should be, are weapon mods. But that's the only exception, getting to the gear cap in this game is really easy.

Everything else is just about looks; "wants", not "needs". The game will play no less different with a set of 15k armor rather than 1k, enemies do not become weaker when you use a gold item. Making unnecessary things "accessible" is a weird route, and if that's what ANet wanted to do I could see the game being in a much better shape if everything was just cheaper to get.